[jillybean]

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You have a "help suit"(I need you to hold honor(s) in this suit) game try available or
2S would ask where partner where she would accept a help suit game try, 2N short suit game try in spades, 3m are short suit game try, 3H asks for trump honors, 4C would be a splinter (lol holding my breath)

[smerriman]

Is 5♣ an option? Not sure if it'll help since it seems to come down to whether we have a diamond loser or not, but I may still choose it if I can't find a better way to find that out.

2♠ followed by 3♦ over 3♣ is my other choice though that's not always going to help if partner has xx, assuming they accept with Qxx.

Definitely interested in the best solution here.

[jillybean]

 smerriman, on 2023-March-19, 23:48, said:

Is 5♣ an option? Not sure if it'll help since it seems to come down to whether we have a diamond loser or not, but I may still choose it if I can't find a better way to find that out.

2♠ followed by 3♦ over 3♣ is my other choice though that's not always going to help if partner has xx, assuming they accept with Qxx.

Definitely interested in the best solution here.

Yes 5♣ would get a 5♦ response - zero

I believe the auction would proceed;
2♠ : 3♣
3♦ : 3♥ or 4♥

[DavidKok]

My partners always have ♠xxx, ♥xxx, ♦xxx, ♣KQTx on this auction.

Let's be bean counters for a second. We have 17 HCP, partner rates to have 6-9. That gives the bad guys or girls 14-17, with likely length in clubs. Their failure to preempt the auction makes it likely partner has 4, possibly 5(+) clubs. We are also missing two key cards and rate to have transportation issues. I think slam is not that likely on the given deal, and ideally I want our slam try to be below game in case partner holds garbage. If partner holds, say, the king of hearts, a fourth heart and a doubleton diamond we have an easy make, but if partner only has three hearts (which is likely) we are in trouble if the diamonds split 4-2 (we would need trumps 2-2 or diamonds 3-3, or partner's heart below the king high enough to ruff the third diamond high as well).

I'm not sure we can sensibly evaluate slam prospects. I'll try a 3♣ short suit game try to get partner to downgrade their club values, and I will bid 3♠ (control) over partner's presumed signoff.

If you play short suit game tries there is no great need to have splinters for opener as well. Those hands can make a short suit game try and then bid again. I therefore play the jump shift rebids as a long, strong side suit with slam prospects if the suit runs. This hand is a near-perfect match, and with that tool I think 4♦ is a nice bid (although it is uncomfortably close to 4♥).

[LBengtsson]

3♦ would be a trial bid here. It would establish if partner is short in ♦ and maybe able to ruff some of our losers. I am not going to give up on slam because with the right cards and shape it will be on. It might be difficult to find though, and I agree with DavidKok that it is difficult to evaluate. There is space to explore, and I think we need to at least try. We might end in 5♥ when we can only make 10 tricks, but taking the cowardly option with this hand is not something I want to do. It is a strong 6/5

[bluenikki]

 DavidKok, on 2023-March-20, 02:37, said:

My partners always have ♠xxx, ♥xxx, ♦xxx, ♣KQTx on this auction.

Goes to show a single raise should promise potential covers for three losers.

[pescetom]

3D help suit looks pretty obvious to me, especially if the positive reply is the cheapest control-bid rather than a bovine jump to game.
If he bids 3S then I continue with 4C and then 4S over his 4H, anything else I stop in 4H.

[DavidKok]

 bluenikki, on 2023-March-20, 06:47, said:

Goes to show a single raise should promise potential covers for three losers.

This hand covers two small clubs as well as the losing mistake of having made that agreement, for a total of three.

[TylerE]

 bluenikki, on 2023-March-20, 06:47, said:

Goes to show a single raise should promise potential covers for three losers.

I'm going to start suggesting this to all my opponents.

[TylerE]

On the given hand...partner made a single raise as a passed hand (Is Drury available, and if so, do you run good 9s through it?).

SO I'm bidding 4♥. I'll take being usually right over being occasionally brilliant.

[jillybean]

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I'm West, our opponents got to 6♥ after ace ask, -1 ♠, ♠ ruff. 1 pair bid and made 6, the remaining 14 pairs were in 4or5♥
It is an awkward hand going forward after 1H:2H

When playing the Kokish game try, we have not re worked our 4x splinters. As David suggests, long strong side suit with slam interest is an option but it removes all of the bidding space. Would a void splinter be an option? I think I'm in favour of leaving it unused.

[DavidKok]

I don't mind leaving it unused. I think if you want to show a three-suiter with a void and GF values you can make a short suit try and rebid the suit, and partner is supposed to understand what is going on. This offers some protection in case partner accepts your game try - presumably you are worth the 5-level opposite fitting values. That leaves the immediate jump free for something else. That being said you need a bid for every hand, not a hand for every bid.

[jillybean]

Here's another one. Same session, I'm still West

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3♠ for me, first cue

[TylerE]

 jillybean, on 2023-March-20, 13:10, said:

Here's another one. Same session, I'm still West

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3♠ for me, first cue

I would have started with 1S. This is a telling hand not an asking hand.

[mikeh]

Years ago I played 1M 2M 4x (where x is a suit below our major) as promising a slam oriented 5=5 or better. Responder is supposed to look at his holding in the two suits and side aces.

When looking at the second suit, xx is fine provided one has 4 trump…with 3 trump it’s not a good holding much of the time

Thus here 1H 2H 4D and responder has poor red holdings so signs off. We would not make this jumpshift with solid suits.

If not playing this, and I only played it with one partner, I agree with 3D, ostensibly help suit. Responder bids 3H and now I’d bid 3S, now revealing 3D as a slam try. Responder can bid 4C, having denied a good hand, and this doesn’t impress north so I’d expect to play in 4H. Single dummy I’m happy with that. 6H needs a lot of good things to happen.

[mikeh]

 jillybean, on 2023-March-20, 13:10, said:

Here's another one. Same session, I'm still West

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3♠ for me, first cue

Keycard

Why screw around? The only time 4N is going to work out poorly is when opener has xxx in spades, which seems unlikely, and spades don’t behave. I’ll pay to that.

Cuebidding is simply wasting time. We must have 5 level safety once partner shows extras and why let the opps listen to a bunch of cuebids then (as surely we will) keycard?

[jillybean]

 mikeh, on 2023-March-20, 13:20, said:

Years ago I played 1M 2M 4x (where x is a suit below our major) as promising a slam oriented 5=5 or better. Responder is supposed to look at his holding in the two suits and side aces.

When looking at the second suit, xx is fine provided one has 4 trump…with 3 trump it’s not a good holding much of the time

Thus here 1H 2H 4D and responder has poor red holdings so signs off. We would not make this jumpshift with solid suits.

If not playing this, and I only played it with one partner, I agree with 3D, ostensibly help suit. Responder bids 3H and now I’d bid 3S, now revealing 3D as a slam try. Responder can bid 4C, having denied a good hand, and this doesn’t impress north so I’d expect to play in 4H. Single dummy I’m happy with that. 6H needs a lot of good things to happen.

Thanks 4x is perhaps too much for us
I like 3D then 3S. My "ostensibly a game try" when I am really making a slam probe is causing my partner grief with his disclosure. He says he cannot explain it as a help suit game try so a simple solution would be "help suit or could be a slam try" explanation. I think help suit explanation is fine, if I then go on over a sign off - it's just bridge!!

[jillybean]

 TylerE, on 2023-March-20, 13:16, said:

I would have started with 1S. This is a telling hand not an asking hand.

So doesn't 2NT tell partner you have this hand?

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[jillybean]

 mikeh, on 2023-March-20, 13:23, said:

Keycard

Why screw around? The only time 4N is going to work out poorly is when opener has xxx in spades, which seems unlikely, and spades don’t behave. I’ll pay to that.

Cuebidding is simply wasting time. We must have 5 level safety once partner shows extras and why let the opps listen to a bunch of cuebids then (as surely we will) keycard?

3♠ practising our cue bidding. Im looking for Grand here so straight to KC

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[DavidKok]

5♥, to play opposite 0, king ask not caring for queen opposite 3. I'll go one off if partner passes and jump to 7 over any response.
It's more of a fun agreement really, since we're past the point of no return missing three key cards. You could just blast seven. It's probably wise to investigate 7NT somehow, if we're worried about a spade ruff. I don't immediately see how to look for that, though.