[jillybean]

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2/1 , 2♣ gf with clubs.

[Cyberyeti]

This is a tricky hand, partner could have anything from Ax, xxx, AQxxxx, xx where slam is cold to QJx(x), KQJ(x), QJxxx, x(x) where 5m doesn't make.

I'd probably start with 3♦ or 3♥ (we don't tend to limit our splinters) in your auction. Not sure whether I'd have started with a SJS 3♣ if I played more standard SJSs than I do.

[mw64ahw]

Looking at ending in 6♦/6NT I'd go straight to 4♥ (2 keycards) given all suit controls are present.

[Cyberyeti]

mw64ahw, on 2021-August-09, 02:58, said:

Looking at ending in 6♦/6NT I'd go straight to 4♥ (2 keycards) given all suit controls are present.

You're not very well placed to know which of 6♦/6N you want to be in yet, can you distinguish between QJxx, Axx, AQxxx, x where 6N won't make on a heart lead but 6♦ is cold if they break (and 6♣ is even better) and other hands where 6N is cold, also you don't know whether it's your ♠Kxx or partner's hypothetical ♥AQx or Kxx that needs protecting.

[DavidKok]

I think this hand should show instead of ask, and then trust partner to make the call. 3♥ splinter would be near-perfect, although partner will likely expect 3=1=4=5 instead of 3=1=3=6, and we are over strength. 3♦ is a suitable alternative, but I think the splinter is more descriptive. Partner's 2♦ shows an unbalanced hand, so they likely have club shortage. Getting partner to properly evaluate their major suit values (in particular, ♥Axx is beautiful for slam, ♥KQTx is garbage) has to be most important.

As an aside, in my weak (12-14) NT partnership we only rebid 2♦ with 6(+) here, and will rebid a 4-card major even without extras. This gives some flexibility in exploring 3NT/5m, because three suits will have been bid naturally already. So far we haven't had any disasters. Depending on the South hand this might be very helpful.

[mw64ahw]

Cyberyeti, on 2021-August-09, 03:11, said:

You're not very well placed to know which of 6♦/6N you want to be in yet, can you distinguish between QJxx, Axx, AQxxx, x where 6N won't make on a heart lead but 6♦ is cold and other hands where 6N is cold, also you don't know whether it's your ♠Kxx or partner's hypothetical ♥AQx or Kxx that needs protecting.

You're correct-I'm expecting to be in 6♦, but if partner can bid beyond 5♥ immediately then I look to convert to 6NT

[Winstonm]

If you have to rebid a 4-card diamond suit, change your methods. For the rest of us, there is a known fit and high hopes for slam.

There are two considerations: from which side to play it and who knows about the slam potential?

It is difficult to get partner on board with minimum values and to understand there are 6 club tricks available . I am going to start with 3D as supporting a minor suit should by itself hint at slam aspirations. I don’t like splinter because partner will not understand that xx, AQJ, AQxxxx, xx is golden for 6 clubs.

I also think there is a good argument for bidding 3C and then supporting diamonds .

Either way it is important to uncover what type hand partner holds. Qx, AQJ, QJxxxx, xx is consistent with the bidding.

[LBengtsson]

Winstonm, on 2021-August-09, 08:31, said:

I also think there is a good argument for bidding 3C and then supporting diamonds .

agree. supporting ♦ could lead to a 6♦ contract when 6NT from your side would be preferable. the ♦ support can wait. it is important to find out if partner has a 6 card ♦ suit or a 4 card major here. you should be in charge of the auction after partners 2♦. I think the worst can happen is that you arrive in 5♦ when 3NT makes with overtricks if playing match points.

[Cyberyeti]

LBengtsson, on 2021-August-09, 10:10, said:

agree. supporting ♦ could lead to a 6♦ contract when 6NT from your side would be preferable. the ♦ support can wait. it is important to find out if partner has a 6 card ♦ suit or a 4 card major here. you should be in charge of the auction after partners 2♦. I think the worst can happen is that you arrive in 5♦ when 3NT makes with overtricks if playing match points.

Agreeing diamonds may allow you to find ♦Q when it's more difficult if you don't.

[jillybean]

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If you raise ♦, (my choice) partner makes a cooperative 3♥ bid, values, could be 4 hearts, 5+ diamonds.

Winstonm, on 2021-August-09, 08:31, said:

It is difficult to get partner on board with minimum values and to understand there are 6 club tricks available.

Right! Here I am with SIX tricks in my hand, a King in partners suit, shortness and the ♠K which could come in handy too. I'm going to be the one driving this auction.

[Winstonm]

jillybean, on 2021-August-09, 11:17, said:

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If you raise ♦, (my choice) partner makes a cooperative 3♥ bid, values, could be 4 hearts, 5+ diamonds.

At this point I will not allow the hand to be played in less than 4NT so I bid 3S. If partner follows with 3N I will continue with 4C. If this spurs a heart cue bid I would then use whatever keycard convention is available.

[jillybean]

Here's the full hand and auction,

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Half the field got caught in 3nt while others played in ♦s.

[Winstonm]

jillybean, on 2021-August-09, 21:31, said:

Here's the full hand and auction,

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Half the field got caught in 3nt while others played in ♦s.

Note that the worthless doubletons scream that for slam purposes partner should declare.

[jillybean]

Winstonm, on 2021-August-09, 21:42, said:

Note that the worthless doubletons scream that for slam purposes partner should declare.

Yes, protecting the ♠K

[Gilithin]

Winstonm, on 2021-August-09, 08:31, said:

If you have to rebid a 4-card diamond suit, change your methods. For the rest of us, there is a known fit and high hopes for slam.

What is your preferred rebid scheme with 4441 hands of various strengths?

[Cyberyeti]

Gilithin, on 2021-August-09, 21:54, said:

What is your preferred rebid scheme with 4441 hands of various strengths?

The problem in many systems is with a 4441 in your 1N opening range as a 2N rebid shows a different strength, I see no alternative to 1♦-2♣-2♦ with a 13 count playing weak NT without 2/1 GF unless you're prepared to open 1♥ and admit to a 5th heart you don't have by rebidding 2♦.

I'm not sure exactly what the 2N rebid shows in 2/1 and whether you can disentangle the range if it matches what you open 1N on.

[nige1]

JillyBean 'Here's the full hand and auction,
Half the field got caught in 3nt while others played in ♦s.
++++++++++++++++++
As the cards lie, 3N works better than 6♦; but luckier views (as suggested by other commentators) get you to the excellent 6♣ or 6N.

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[Cyberyeti]

3N is VERY pusillanimous, if you have a quantitative 4N, bid it (with our arragements it would continue 5N-6♣/N. If not, 3♠-4♦ now you know you have to declare to protect your K♠, what I would do is dependent on my arrangements now (what my KC bid is).

[DavidKok]

Gilithin, on 2021-August-09, 21:54, said:

What is your preferred rebid scheme with 4441 hands of various strengths?

If you're playing a weak NT I prefer 1♦-2♣; 2♥ with a weak 4=4=4=1, but as I said the best I can claim is that we haven't had any accidents yet. We are likely headed to 3NT, and this way I keep the bidding low, don't promise far too many diamonds (partner will expect a 5th most of the time but what can you do) and, most importantly, I don't suggest more club support than I actually have in case partner wants to try 6♣. We also get easy third round rebids - 2NT/3♠/3NT depending on the hand and partner's bid.

[Winstonm]

Gilithin, on 2021-August-09, 21:54, said:

What is your preferred rebid scheme with 4441 hands of various strengths?

Justin Lall convinced me that it is ok to rebid nt with a singleton. The only opening scheme I ever used was the 2D opening in Sontag/Weichsel version of Precision.

I personally think it a mistake to create alterations to your basic bidding structure to handle low frequency hands. This fits with my thinking that 2/1 is built for game/slam bidding so you accept that part score bidding will not be as accurate . 1nt forcing is integral to 2/1 so to change it to semi-forcing alters the entire structure of other bids. I think this is a mistake . If you want to be able to bid non-forcing 1nt, don’t play 2/1.